The Pathos of Distance

THIS IS AN ANNOYING LOG-IN POP UP JUST FOR YOU
The Pathos of Distance

- Agile Minds in Perpetuum -


    Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Share

    Ored

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2018-05-01

    Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Ored on Fri May 11, 2018 10:44 pm

    Up to a certain moment in western culture, a long history had matured to a point where we were free in an important way that was central to our identity: we were fundamentally uncertain. We had experienced enough power, enough development, enough promises to arrive at a point where uncertainty was self-evident. A reflexion of power that comes with knowledge. We were constantly ready for the world to reveal itself to us, asserting our own idea of it was not an option that occurred to us because we had battled long and hard with it and instinctively knew better.

    Bin Laden's curse, as he crashed two planes into the World Tarde Center, was to force us into a position once again, after possibly only a decade of our maturity having come to full fruition, of having to assert ourselves. Certainty is now the main feature of Western psychology, as a product of our insecurity, robbing us of the most powerful attitude so far known to mankind. More concretely, of being able to witness the world reveal itself. We are, like all other and previously far inferior cultures, able now only to see what we ourselves can assert. Because we assert it, and it is what is in our view.

    It is a sad development.

    Z13

    Posts : 394
    Join date : 2018-04-16

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Z13 on Sat May 12, 2018 6:55 am

    I read the OP three times and I still got nothing. Could you rephrase the central point of the post?

    Ored

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2018-05-01

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Ored on Sat May 12, 2018 10:36 pm

    Heh, you sound like my old college teachers.

    Central point... Central point...

    I'm a little offended at the ide a that there might be one.
    avatar
    Mitra-Sauwelios
    Admin

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2018-02-10
    Age : 40
    Location : Amsterdam

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Mitra-Sauwelios on Sun May 13, 2018 2:07 am

    I thought it was interesting. Then again, I was a Nineties teen myself. Zoot, I think, belongs to an earlier generation--if only by a couple of years.

    What if we assert that the world is assertion and nothing besides? What if that's what's revealed to us by the world?


    _________________
    "The will to power takes the place which the eros--the striving for 'the good in itself'--occupies in Plato's thought. But the eros is not 'the pure mind' (der reine Geist). Whatever may be the relation between the eros and the pure mind according to Plato, in Nietzsche's thought the will to power takes the place of both eros and the pure mind. Accordingly philosophizing becomes a mode or modification of the will to power: it is the most spiritual (der geistigste) will to power; it consists in prescribing to nature what or how it ought to be (aph. 9); it is not love of the true that is independent of will or decision. Whereas according to Plato, the pure mind grasps the truth, according to Nietzsche the impure mind, or a certain kind of impure mind, is the sole source of truth." (Leo Strauss, Studies in Platonic Political Philosophy, "Note on the Plan of Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil".)
    avatar
    Satyr

    Posts : 761
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Satyr on Sun May 13, 2018 6:40 am

    It would say nothing about the world, but it would only expose the relationship of the one making the 'assertion' with the world he finds himself in.

    Self-referential subjectivity, is cool.
    I can declare anything and then also declare declaration as a central universal concept.
    What would be the only criterion for evaluating 'truth' in this solipsistic context?
    Seductive potential.
    How many morons can I seduce with these comforting lies?
    How much 'power' can I gain from the exploitation of weakness?
    Building castle on sand dunes and then assertion your royal lineage....I declare myself king of kings. I declare myself heir of Nietzsche....I declare myself a philosopher....when all I am is a feeble-minded nit-wit, and hypocrite, using words to self-deceive as a way of making my deceptions more convincing to others.

    Haven't we done this already?
    It's called Abrahamism.

    But when that 'one god' was prematurely declared 'dead' that left many morons out cold, primed for a new messiah, a new lie.....ready and willing to believe any circular reasoning, and desperate to be mesmerized by a new word-juggling clown act.
    Children need to laugh.


    _________________
    Know Thyself
    avatar
    Mitra-Sauwelios
    Admin

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2018-02-10
    Age : 40
    Location : Amsterdam

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Mitra-Sauwelios on Sun May 13, 2018 4:37 pm

    You cannot declare declaration as a central universal concept and then also declare just anything.

    It's revelation without assertion that's the Abrahamic seduction here: it's how you've seduced all those angry young men.

    avatar
    Satyr

    Posts : 761
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Satyr on Sun May 13, 2018 4:45 pm

    Poor follower of idols...you go from one master to another.

    Their anger is because of the lies they've been fed for centuries.
    You use word games to fabricate a lie that can seduce imbeciles, and needy effete desperate souls, like yourself.
    Words hovering in space/time....ambiguous ideas that can be literal or figurative....that can mean anything, allude to anything and everything....to nothing.
    I do not declare anything...I show....I expose.  
    You follow whoever tickles your pussy.

    Cosmos...not universe.
    My words connect to world....you want to detach and there build castles in your mind, of the mind, for needy minds - a clique of mindless morons sharing a mind.

    I do enjoy watching you try.
    But I'm the antidote.
    You are the disease and I am the immunity shot
    I sell nothing....I claim to be nothing...I want nothing......nothing from your ilk.
    I only reveal. I recall....I unforget.

    Words symbolizing/representing abstractions; abstractions/ideas referring to presence/appearance; appearance that can be tested, engaged, each creating his/her own strategy, using his/her own assessment of his own qualities and his own judgment of the objective.

    I love loving love.


    _________________
    Know Thyself
    avatar
    Mitra-Sauwelios
    Admin

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2018-02-10
    Age : 40
    Location : Amsterdam

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Mitra-Sauwelios on Sun May 13, 2018 4:50 pm

    Satyr wrote:I do not declare anything...I show....I expose.  
    [...]
    My words connect to world....[...] I'm the antidote.
    I sell nothing....I claim to be nothing...
    I only reveal.

    QED. Or should I say KEK?


    _________________
    "The will to power takes the place which the eros--the striving for 'the good in itself'--occupies in Plato's thought. But the eros is not 'the pure mind' (der reine Geist). Whatever may be the relation between the eros and the pure mind according to Plato, in Nietzsche's thought the will to power takes the place of both eros and the pure mind. Accordingly philosophizing becomes a mode or modification of the will to power: it is the most spiritual (der geistigste) will to power; it consists in prescribing to nature what or how it ought to be (aph. 9); it is not love of the true that is independent of will or decision. Whereas according to Plato, the pure mind grasps the truth, according to Nietzsche the impure mind, or a certain kind of impure mind, is the sole source of truth." (Leo Strauss, Studies in Platonic Political Philosophy, "Note on the Plan of Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil".)
    avatar
    Satyr

    Posts : 761
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Satyr on Sun May 13, 2018 4:52 pm

    Keep trying....I love loving love, my lovely.
    Put me in your little boxes. Throw me into the pacific and hope I never wash up on any shore.


    _________________
    Know Thyself
    avatar
    Satyr

    Posts : 761
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Satyr on Sun May 13, 2018 4:55 pm

    In an inverted world of words, light is dark and dark is light.
    Order is chaos and chaos is order.

    We can construct anything and everything when our words are liberated from natural order.
    A hidden order.....alluded to, named, described in romantic, idealistic, impressive linguistics....seducing little boys and girls who have lost their daddy in the sky.
    Surrealism to help the weak cope with realism.

    Never change, ya hear.....never ever change.
    You are the hot air that separates chaff from wheat...and I am gravitas, waiting for them to fall upon my welcoming embrace.


    Last edited by Satyr on Sun May 13, 2018 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    Know Thyself
    avatar
    Mitra-Sauwelios
    Admin

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2018-02-10
    Age : 40
    Location : Amsterdam

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Mitra-Sauwelios on Sun May 13, 2018 4:56 pm

    Satyr wrote:Keep trying....I love loving love, my lovely.
    Put me in your little boxes. Throw me into the pacific and hope I never wash up on any shore.

    I've never seen anyone expose himself as promptly as you just did. Now please move along and leave philosophising to the adults.


    _________________
    "The will to power takes the place which the eros--the striving for 'the good in itself'--occupies in Plato's thought. But the eros is not 'the pure mind' (der reine Geist). Whatever may be the relation between the eros and the pure mind according to Plato, in Nietzsche's thought the will to power takes the place of both eros and the pure mind. Accordingly philosophizing becomes a mode or modification of the will to power: it is the most spiritual (der geistigste) will to power; it consists in prescribing to nature what or how it ought to be (aph. 9); it is not love of the true that is independent of will or decision. Whereas according to Plato, the pure mind grasps the truth, according to Nietzsche the impure mind, or a certain kind of impure mind, is the sole source of truth." (Leo Strauss, Studies in Platonic Political Philosophy, "Note on the Plan of Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil".)
    avatar
    Satyr

    Posts : 761
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Satyr on Sun May 13, 2018 4:58 pm

    I reveal...you conceal....and under the covers you shape the linen to make it seem like you have a hard-on.
    Are you the adult?

    Ha!
    The Dark Ages are truly here.


    _________________
    Know Thyself
    avatar
    Mitra-Sauwelios
    Admin

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2018-02-10
    Age : 40
    Location : Amsterdam

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Mitra-Sauwelios on Sun May 13, 2018 4:59 pm

    Move along, whiny child, or you're grounded. I'm not telling you again.


    _________________
    "The will to power takes the place which the eros--the striving for 'the good in itself'--occupies in Plato's thought. But the eros is not 'the pure mind' (der reine Geist). Whatever may be the relation between the eros and the pure mind according to Plato, in Nietzsche's thought the will to power takes the place of both eros and the pure mind. Accordingly philosophizing becomes a mode or modification of the will to power: it is the most spiritual (der geistigste) will to power; it consists in prescribing to nature what or how it ought to be (aph. 9); it is not love of the true that is independent of will or decision. Whereas according to Plato, the pure mind grasps the truth, according to Nietzsche the impure mind, or a certain kind of impure mind, is the sole source of truth." (Leo Strauss, Studies in Platonic Political Philosophy, "Note on the Plan of Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil".)
    avatar
    Satyr

    Posts : 761
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Satyr on Sun May 13, 2018 5:02 pm

    Are you threatening me....master?
    Will you be sending me away so that you can perform your clown magic tricks for the children you call 'adults'?

    Have words lost all meaning for you?
    Do you only feel them, reverberating in your empty skull, sending stimulation to your...ahem, nether regions?
    Is it your skull, or....another cavernous space - womb-like and moist, waiting for a universal cock to fertilize it?
    You are mother Mary, birthing the messiah.
    Harlot.

    I am your Satan.

    How's the proselytizing going?
    How many can fit into the van?


    _________________
    Know Thyself
    avatar
    Mitra-Sauwelios
    Admin

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2018-02-10
    Age : 40
    Location : Amsterdam

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Mitra-Sauwelios on Sun May 13, 2018 5:17 pm

    As I don't have time to figure out how to restrict him to the Hole right now, I've given Satyr a three-day ban.


    _________________
    "The will to power takes the place which the eros--the striving for 'the good in itself'--occupies in Plato's thought. But the eros is not 'the pure mind' (der reine Geist). Whatever may be the relation between the eros and the pure mind according to Plato, in Nietzsche's thought the will to power takes the place of both eros and the pure mind. Accordingly philosophizing becomes a mode or modification of the will to power: it is the most spiritual (der geistigste) will to power; it consists in prescribing to nature what or how it ought to be (aph. 9); it is not love of the true that is independent of will or decision. Whereas according to Plato, the pure mind grasps the truth, according to Nietzsche the impure mind, or a certain kind of impure mind, is the sole source of truth." (Leo Strauss, Studies in Platonic Political Philosophy, "Note on the Plan of Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil".)

    Ored

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2018-05-01

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Ored on Sun May 13, 2018 10:07 pm

    "It would say nothing about the world, but it would only expose the relationship of the one making the 'assertion' with the world he finds himself in."

    I find this on the whole to be... An assertion! True enough as far as assertions go, but I question the value of a true assertion. We all used to, western culture. For a brief period, which is what I find sad indeed.

    But to answer Barld the Bald, I contend that is precicely Bin Laden's curse. As we had nothing to assert, given our lofty position which did not require it, we turned to assertion itself. Universalist confidence, I am tempted to call it.

    Z13

    Posts : 394
    Join date : 2018-04-16

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Z13 on Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 pm

    I contend that is precicely Bin Laden's curse.

    i think his greatest curse was that thing with his bad leg. the dude had to use a walking stick. remember that from the video footage? that's got to be a great big pain in the ass to negotiate the rugged, rocky terrain of the mountains of afganistan while carrying an ak-47 AND a walking stick. like what would he do if he had to fire? pull a shwarzenegger and fire one handed, or drop the stick, fire with both hands, and fall over?

    the guy had courage to become a leader of the jihad with a condition like that. over here, you can't even get in the military with a bad leg, much less lead a middle eastern war campaign under the pretense of fighting terrorism when really all you're doing is trying to make way for the installment of capitalism so you can set up walmarts and mcdonalds at every corner after you take control of the oil reserves.


    Ored

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2018-05-01

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Ored on Mon May 14, 2018 9:36 pm

    Hm. I used to think like that. Until I decided that, for all its evils, I prefer Wallmarts to Koran reading circles and women in creepy sheets.

    Consider muslims' main enemies. A people that wherever they have gone, and there are few places in the succesful part of the Earth that they haven't, they have assimilated and made massive contributions in the arts, sciences, technology, finance, intellect, common sense, and work ethic. The people with possibly the greatest accumen ever. They move into the neighbourhood and what do muslims want? To wipe them off the face of the Earth. Idiots. Let Starbucks sort them out.

    Of course, communists have always been immune to uncertainty. Hate has a way of avoiding it easily.

    Z13

    Posts : 394
    Join date : 2018-04-16

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Z13 on Mon May 14, 2018 9:47 pm

    VERY well played, ored. I cannot disagree. Capitalism is a joke, but anything else is a bad joke.

    Ored

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2018-05-01

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Ored on Mon May 14, 2018 10:10 pm

    Well there are other things. In the making. Gestating all over the intelligent world.

    I do believe that, however glorious these possibilities may be, they are not certain until they are won and they are in the end nothing but a path to something that, for a fleeting moment, we already had.
    avatar
    Barracuda

    Posts : 151
    Join date : 2018-02-11
    Age : 353

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Barracuda on Fri May 18, 2018 9:17 am

    Ored wrote:Hm. I used to think like that. Until I decided that, for all its evils, I prefer Wallmarts to Koran reading circles and women in creepy sheets.

    Consider muslims' main enemies. A people that wherever they have gone, and there are few places in the succesful part of the Earth that they haven't, they have assimilated and made massive contributions in the arts, sciences, technology, finance, intellect, common sense, and work ethic. The people with possibly the greatest accumen ever. They move into the neighbourhood and what do muslims want? To wipe them off the face of the Earth. Idiots. Let Starbucks sort them out.

    Of course, communists have always been immune to uncertainty. Hate has a way of avoiding it easily.

    Well said.

    It is amusing to talk to muslims directly about Jews. I mean, individually.
    In large masses al they can do in response to the notion of a Jew is lose consciousness and be taken up by some demonic collective neurosis, but in private, you will see their eyes widen and, a curiosity rise in them, a curiosity that is very rare in islam as a phenomenon.

    As much as the worlds depraved idiots try to make the Jews into a collective enemy, the brighter souls in the world, of whatever creed, keep being fascinated by this tribe.

    First time I saw this phenomenon was when I was living in a place that also housed a Somali generals son in exile. He revealed the fearful deference the islamic soul has before the Jewish intellect.



    ::

    Capitalism isn't a joke, it is simply a form of happiness, of collectively "having it figured out". Walmart is a nice company. I bought a TracFone and a Buck knife there which are very durable.


    _________________
    I do not want to be right. I want to believe in you. I want to believe that in this world there is someone who never lies, cheats or compromises, who is always noble. - ᛁᚹᚫᚱ

    Ored

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2018-05-01

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Ored on Sat May 26, 2018 12:18 pm

    Right, it is just an expression of western power. Before the curse, it was not THE thing, only a further part of the world within which we were uncertain.

    Now it is taken as the grounds for certainty. The point, the thing. I believe it is only one powerful part of a greater scope of culture that can be assertive in much more interesting ways. At once a means and an expression. Its sillynesses are proudly shown, as they are marks of the unbridable course of history wherein it sprung.

    Z13

    Posts : 394
    Join date : 2018-04-16

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Z13 on Sat May 26, 2018 2:29 pm

    capitalism is a joke because it hasn't the courage to stop hiding. one of the principles upon which it is based is bullshit. its assertion that everyone has an equal 'opportunity' is never, and can never, be true. then, if those who can't afford no shoes struggle and suffer the alienation from privilege and other people because of their lack of advantage, end up revolting (become dissident and/or criminal), it shakes its finger at them as if this is some big surprise.

    capitalism is weak and incompetent in this sense; not strong enough to admit its pure social darwinism (still pretending that equality in practice is real) and stop hiding behind the facade of its dubious social contract. incompetent because it is dumbfounded by its own bullshit.

    communism or facism is much more honest, though also implausible. this is why i call capitalism a joke, but not a bad one. it is an expression of two incommensurate facts about life; there is no equality of anything, but to function this truth must be hidden by the stronger. the joke is the charade capitalism must become in order to work. its masters are no longer even liars, but incompetent cowards; they go into ideological hiding because they haven't the power to be evil. they are not strong enough to no longer need to lie.

    and even those randian atheists are clowns. they still pretend there is any 'civil order' at the heart of the system.

    Ored

    Posts : 32
    Join date : 2018-05-01

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Ored on Sat May 26, 2018 2:48 pm

    I get everything you just said except the hate. Without it, it sounds more like a ringing endorsement.

    Z13

    Posts : 394
    Join date : 2018-04-16

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Z13 on Sat May 26, 2018 2:49 pm

    you still believe in spooks, ored.


    Sponsored content

    Re: Bin Laden and The Death of Grunge

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:14 pm