The Pathos of Distance

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The Pathos of Distance

- Agile Minds in Perpetuum -


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Satyr
Zoot Allures
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    Zoot's Philosophical Musings

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    promethean75


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    Post by promethean75 Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:24 am

    profesor satyr wrote:Why hate transsexuals....why fight your enemies, when you have become aware that none of them can do otherwise. They, like you, have no choice but to behave in the way the universal one determined?
    Why feel so much passion against them, when they have no choice?
    Do you hat a flu virus for being what it is?
    Do you hate a storm for being what it is?
    Believing what you do, this is madness.

    not, it's not madness... it just involves a radically different way of understanding the moral sphere once it's realized there is no freewill.

    might be a good idea to use nietzsche here as a template. he describes 'revenge' as consisting of two types. the first type is reflexive and in the name of self-preservation; we strike out absentmindedly at an object to prevent it from further harming us. the second type is reflective in that it isn't simply reactionary and reflexive. we deliberate this second type, and it involves something more than self-preservation. it involves a 'restoration' as well... the restoration of 'honor' or the knowledge that one too can be dangerous in return. it says 'i don't fear you'. it demonstrates the reciprocity of power.

    now in the case of there being no freewill, and therefore no more praise or blame, the second type must become an instance of a more complex first type. without responsibility, people become objects which either threaten or compliment our well-being in the same way a lawn mower might run over our foot, which we then kick (with our good foot) and curse aloud.

    striking out against them, here, does not require that one believe they have freewill. whether responsible or not, if you threaten me, i'm comin' for ya... and this has nothing to do with the moral concept of 'honor'. i am absolutely unconcerned with whether or not i'm respected or feared, so my revenge is not restorative but reflexive. i can't 'restore' what doesn't exist in the first place; notions such as 'honor' and 'respect' depend on there being freewill, because they are measures of praise which decrease proportionate to blame and vice-versa.

    so my attack is not for imposing guilt or responsibility upon you, and does not rest on the presupposition, does not require, that you can be or have either. like an inanimate object that has become an obstacle, i strike out at you as a reflex to remove you. this reflex is not for the purposes of punishing, but of self-preservation only.

    this is what i mean when i say the whole 'sphere' of morality is changed because there is no freewill. the conditions of our motivations for revenge become something else as a result.

    this should help you in your transition into nihilistic-sociopathology.... a conclusion to a higher order of reasoning, and not for everyone. you should feel privileged, sir.
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    Post by promethean75 Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:32 am

    sombody elsewhere wrote:If you could live your life over again, would you choose differently along some point regarding something you did?

    When I was younger I had a few chances at romance that I look back on now and realize that I completely botched them. On the one hand I wish I had those chances over again. On the other hand I look at myself back then and realize it was for the better. I wasn't ready for those opportunities. I was too immature and stupid (probably still am compared to others my age). It's a tough call. Would I want to go back and go through the same thing except for a different outcome, knowing that maybe later down the road would be greater disaster had I pursued those initial "successes" further? Or am I OK with the way things turned out now?

    Granted I don't consider my current life ideal by any ethical, aesthetic or noble standard. But it seems kind of appropriate for me, like things turned out as best as they could have for someone who was just more screwed up and confused than almost everyone else around me at the time. Such is life. And it's not all bad. It could be worse. It could be worse had I "succeeded" in those moments when I believe I did not.

    ...if you know what I mean.

    aside from noting that this is one of those philosophical hypothetical impossibilities that doesn't make any sense, i answer the question with a definitive 'NO'. even if i could change anything, i wouldn't. i don't give a damn what has 'come of my choices' after the fact. there is a reason why i do what i do... and if i end up in a mess, it's usually because i refused to compromise in the ways other people have done which has, incidentally, brought them to whatever prosperity they have.

    i look at a guy who's 'got it made' and often i ask myself; i wonder how many times in life this clown has acted like a little bitch and kissed somebody's ass to get where he is now. or was everything handed to him on a gold platter? in either case such people don't really live. it isn't what you have - you'll take none of it with you when you die - and it isn't too much about what you do, either - the universe is just particles swirling around in a positively charged void. if it's about anything at all, if there's something more 'to it', it would be about why you do what you do. and when your 'why' gets you into trouble, that's irrelevent. what matters is that you did not break or even bend under pressure, that you stood by your 'principles', that you didn't submit to somebody's bullshit.

    such people will have a difficult life, to be sure (since there is so much bullshit out there to refuse). but if life is some kind of game, some kind of preparatory stage that's followed by something more, you can bet your ass it doesn't matter what you have or what you do... only why you did it.

    your 'whys' are the stuff of your soul - the osmosis of your gnosis, the farina in your machina, the status of your conatus... these things are the prenatal germ of your eternal return!
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    Post by promethean75 Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:25 pm

    back at the day labor place now that i'm no longer working for the inferior fuck i'm suing for refusing to pay me what he owes me. guy can't stand the fact that i'm better than him... tries to follow me around hoping to find mistakes so he can 'keep me in check'. 'keeping in check' is a technique a capitalist piece of shit uses to prevent those he exploits from feeling they should be paid more. in fact, the capitalist, to a degree, wants his employees to fuck up so he can 'keep them in check'. what infuriated this piece of shit so much is that he couldn't keep me in check; i don't make mistakes, and if i do, i can make the mistake and fix it in half the time takes somebody else to do it right the first time, so there's still no loss. not only this, but i'm also a master at turning the tables on a capitalist piece of shit. i follow him around, pointing out all his mistakes, that he is a hipocrit, that he is unorganized and inefficient, that he's slow as fuck, that i wouldn't pay him half of what he pays me, if he worked for me. i've been doing this for a year... working my magic, getting under his skin slowly but surely, until he finally broke down. now he's doing a custom job for some neurotic rich woman who, because she thinks she's being overcharged - and she is, knowing this asshole. guy bids his jobs giving himself 50 dollars an hour ... lol, i wouldn't pay the fucker 15 if he worked for me. if this clown is worth 50 and hour... i'm worth 150 - is nit-picking little irrelevent shit just to harrass him and 'keep him in check'. so now he's so angry he's trying to blame me for her criticism... sayin' the shit i did was fucked up. the guy is so far gone now i don't even think he realizes i know he's lying, and that i know he knows i know he's lying. i walked off the job weeks ago... this piece of shit had me so mad i was ready to break his fucking jaw just to shut him up. says he's not paying me. says he'll win in court by calling me a 'sub contractor', saying i didn't do the job right (judge won't know he's lying) so he's not obligated to pay me. stupid fuck thinks he'll get away with it, too. by any standard i'm considered an 'employee', not a sub contractor. i make an hourly wage, can't hire my own people to do the work, can't show up when i want, am instructed how to do shit, use his tools, pay for no materials, etc., etc. you can't refuse to pay an employee because you disapprove of what he does (but he doesn't disapprove. he's lying. if anything, he's envious of what i do). you fire him, but you can't refuse to pay him. that's illegal. now this dumb fuck is gonna end up paying twice what he owes by the time he gets out of court. what he already owes me, my filing fees, lost wages for having to take off work to go to court.

    where was i... oh yeah, back at the day labor place. first day. they send me out to a big commercial job. i spend all day fixing what the other guy (who went with me) fucked up the day before because he was given bad instructions by the super who was running the job. unbelievable. but here's the kicker; even though he didn't do it 'right', it doesn't make what he did 'wrong'. let me explain. he's furring down metal stud headers with a two by four. long partition walls on the ninth floor of a big office complex. like fifty doorways. all gotta be furred down. you screw the two-by to the metal track. simply enough. but this super had him pilot the screw holes, as well as use wide threaded screws. because of this, the two-by wasn't drawing up tight to the track... each one had about a light eighth gap. by piloting the holes first, you wallow out the path of the screw... which then doesn't pull the wood up with it. wide threaded screws also strip out in metal.

    now, of course you'd want the two-by drawn up tight if you can do it... but if it doesn't, it's not a problem. the doorway opening is a rough frame... which means the door jambs have about a half inch all the way around. all that matters is that you have enough of that two-by to fasten the jamb to. what is important is that the two-by is secure to the track... not necessarily whether or not it's drawn up tight to it. it's still structurally sound even if there's an eighth gap.

    so what happened here? the super, who didn't know what he was doing, instructed the guy wrong (wasted money), then turned around and had me fix them, wasting more money, because they didn't really need to be drawn up. because i fixed everything the guy fucked up in half the time it took him to fuck it up, and there was no real need to fix it, the fact that he had me fix it means that his company was willing to pay for what i did twice, essentially, because they paid once for it to be done wrong, then again for it to be done right... when it really didn't need to be fixed.

    it's astonishing how clumsy and disorganized these big contractor companies are. the way they carelessly throw around money. and they're so filthy rich, shit like this is a drop in the bucket. it doesn't even matter that they've got a super who doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. and it can't even be said that i saved their ass, because although what i did in principle was correct everything they did wrong, they're so wealthy their own mistakes don't even cost them.

    the lowly laborer and lowest paid guy on the job - yours truly - unfucks everything the big dogs screwed up, and for a fraction of what they made to fuck it up. every time this happens in the world, an angel loses its wings. i wouldn't have it any other way.

    https://vocaroo.com/i/s1J3ScqpX318

    https://vocaroo.com/i/s0azMScKm1fG

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    Post by promethean75 Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:52 am

    wait just a cotton pickin' minute. i'm looking at this paycheck stub. this can't be right, can it? 9 hours at 15 per hour, and i pay 25 dollars in taxes? i mean i only claimed myself, but still this doesn't sound right.

    omg. i think i know what's happening. they've found me... the motherfuckers have finally found me. they've been waiting for me to appear on the books again... little state tax agents sitting at their terminals watching and waiting to find me. they knew i'd turn up eventually.

    they're garnishing my wages to cover the thousands of dollars i owe the public attorney for not defending me against the wrongful charges brought against me in 2010. that's what this is.

    i swear to the gods these monkeys will not get off my back.

    i think i'm going to become a sovereign. i'm gonna save my money and go through the process of complete and total emancipation.

    with you as my witness i hereby renounce my nom de guerre and am no longer under jurisdiction of false maritime law. get the fuck off my property or i'll shoot you.
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    Post by promethean75 Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:22 pm

    pedro wrote:The main, only real difference really between leftists and right wingers is that leftists see politics as the pursuit of attaining a perfect society, whilst right wingers see politics as a means to deal with what's actually out there.

    there used to be many, major differences when leftism was actual marxism before capitalists got to it and systematically distorted it. today the leftists are 'social democrat' clowns who are as far away from marxism as are the conservatives who created the hoax. for example, this nonsense about 'trying to create equality'. marx never set out to do such a thing and in fact critiqued the very notion of equality as naive. so then why do we always hear that catchphrase in leftist rhetoric? the reason is really quite ingenious. the capitalist right, in order to keep the working class in an unambitious and discouraged state, distorts marx's thought into a gross and unrealistic exaggeration that can't be taken seriously or given much credit. so by saying that 'marxism strives for equality', the capitalists divest the working class of making any effort to change their circumstances, since everybody knows 'equality' is an unrealistic notion. you always hear marxism associated with that other catchphrase 'utopian', as well. more bullshit. the purpose is to make the danger appear silly and unrealistic so that anyone who might subscribe to it, dismisses it instead; the genius of capitalism not only lies in its ability to conceal its true nature for centuries (its 'moral principle' inconsistencies), but also distort and control any ideas that evolve contrary to its interests that might put it in danger.

    but you're right in a way you're not aware of. there is little difference between right and left today... because the left is just another contrived manifestation of the right... a kind of decoy put in place to discredit marxism. i see this all the time across many forums; people who haven't a clue what marxism is about set out on endless tirades against it. what they are doing is arguing against the decoy, not marxism, so i don't pay any attention to it.

    but the problem for the capitalists will always be the same; you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.

    what's happening in america, slowly, is an anomaly the capitalist parasites hadn't planned on happening; even though they've manufactured leftism in the public discourse and have control over it, they can't change or conceal marxist literature proper... and more and more people are finding it. they fucked up and forgot to burn the libraries, see.

    in discovering this literature, the working class comes to be aware of the tremendous conflict of interests between them and the owners of production. this is the first step, a step that was otherwise hidden quite well by all manner of distractions created to keep working class consumers occupied in trivial pursuits. hell, the market even turned the revolutionary archetype into another commodity. no, you don't have to actually be a revolutionary to feel like one. just go out and buy x, listen to y ('ewww-ew, i'm a rebel just for kicks, yeah'), watch z, dress like p, use lingo a, b, and c. see? you don't have to overthrow us. you wanna be a revolutionary... we can sell it to ya, no problem.

    hard to say though what'll happen. the millennials are almost totally brainwashed, so it might be the next generation that get's something going, i dunno.

    it'll be a helluva show though and i'd love to see it. i can see my old ass now, sitting in a coffee shop somewhere as rioting college students and blue collar workers swarm the capital. man i hope it happens that way. 'gradual reform' is so boring. i'd probably even try to get involved. grab the nearest bullhorn and start giving orders like lenin:

    [promethean75's eyes light up with a fiery glow... a grin stretches from ear to ear. he enters the reverie as if possessed by some ancient soul]

    'you there... organize twenty people and establish syndicate counsels for administrative duty immediately! we'll need a communications base to coordinate our efforts. set up a barricade on the east and west wing... the capitalist lackeys (police) will be mounting an assault and the army will be here soon. i know you've all been raised on Call of Duty but this is the real thing. it's gonna get messy, kids, but keep your spirit and hold the ranks! *shouting/gunshots* grab that fat sonofabitch... don't let em get away. hang him by his feet from the lightpole. we'll make an example yet outta that useless piece of shit.'
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    Post by promethean75 Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:47 pm

    faust wrote:Because I have read Gottlieb Schmaldyck? Gott Schmaldyck was a giant. Sort of.

    the Schmaldyck system was impressive for its time, but the doxastic structure he erected in logic was only a small contribution to the field. it was really the work of Holden Tudiks that proved to be a bit much for logicians of the time to handle. needless to say, Holden Tudiks really had his hands full, but his persistence proved to reveal some penetrating insights into the field. i'm surprised Faust didn't mention Tudiks. he did twice as much as Schmaldyck and made much bigger contributions.
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    Post by promethean75 Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:08 pm

    .


    Last edited by promethean75 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by promethean75 Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:25 am

    it was the sudden, explosive power of capitalism and the thrust into the consumerism and materialism characterizing the 50s and 60s that conditioned the baby boomer generation to develop excessive vanities and expectations in their 'life styles'. this social trend would become progressively more expressed in the generations to follow. this nervous fervor to buy the latest thing, to out-do (or at least keep up with) the peers in your class-group. how does it work and what keeps it going? capitalism first divides people into classes, then, in order to create a dependable consumer base which will produce the demand for the commodities and services the capitalist profits from, capitalism must create a competitive and antagonistic social atmosphere/environment in which the consumers exist and are conditioned to believe they need such commodities and services to be acknowledged, recognized, respected, and even feared a little bit (consumers love to think property and wealth makes them powerful).

    as this generation ages, it notices the recognition it gets in proportion to it's accumulation of wealth and property. then a perversion occurs; consumers begin to mistake 'want' for 'need'... they begin to think that if they want it, they must need it. their 'wants', though, are entirely manufactured by subliminal market forces... the reification and commodification of what marx called 'metaphysical niceties' forces consumers to absentmindedly associate the generated symbolic meanings of things with social status, and it is this endless pursuit of 'upward mobility' that stimulates the market process.

    you clearly see an example of this in celebrity and upper class petite bourgeois culture; people who are otherwise talentless, uninteresting, simple minded, and ordinary, are inflated into monolithic superstars who then act as living advertisements for the symbols associated with the mobility of the type... which the lower classes then emulate and 'try to be like'.  

    keynes was correct in identifying what he called the 'animal spirit' in man... meaning, essentially, that if man more naturally 'lives in the now' rather than worrying about future economic outcomes, market forces will naturally and spontaneously adjust for the better. what he didn't notice, however, is that that very 'spirit' wasn't originally natural; human beings were far more frugal and spendthrift before the reification and commodification of consumer symbols were manufactured by capitalism. of course they also 'wanted' along with 'needing', but the degree of control those 'wants' had on them was far less... and this because that social competitive element wasn't as prominent... and this because the division of classes wasn't as clearly defined.

    and even the left exploits this phenomena, e.g., tanisha, who owns three TVs, two cell phones, an oversized SUV, and three closets full of clothes, isn't making a fair wage and is struggling because of that. 'struggling'? yes, 'struggling', because the class she is being compared to with which the determination is made that she is 'wanting', also has far more than it actually 'needs', so the victimhood associated with tanisha is a condition relative to another condition which is itself already excessive.

    anyway, enough marxist sociology for now. check this one out. so she dumps her whole inheritance on a house that far exceeds her requirements - because of that consumer vainity that has been so carefully nurtured by the capitalist system - and then spends the last quarter of her life complaing about being broke. had she bought a much smaller house, she'd have thousands to invest with and would have made her 'nest egg' last much longer.

    it's sickening to hear someone who is literally handed over 100,000 dollars, complain about having it 'rough'... especially when they fucked it up because of their own incompetence in addition to being given it for free in the first place.

    http://vocaroo.com/i/s0EHVsYxDniq

    but these monsters, these frankensteins, were created by the system. western materialism, that insatiable animal spirit that wants more, more, more! who is responsible for this hedonistic abomination of man? you guessed it: big swifty and associates - trend mongers - (4:25). take the elevator.
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    Post by promethean75 Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:26 pm

    prismatic567 wrote:Breath is the most fundamental element of life which is more fundamental than dasein, conflicting goods and political/economic power, and everything else.

    this may be true, but it does not detract from the tripartite formulae biggy so masterfully puts forth to summarize our inescapable existential dilemma... for there is also the matter of conflicting breath that these optimists and humanism apologists so quickly forget, yes?

    the other day i had the great misfortune to be in the path of a waft of breath that was so offensive, it smelled like death twice warmed over. there is therefore no denying that i was engaged in yet another conflict with dasein... a dasein who probably hadn't brushed his teeth in weeks.

    be that the breath may indeed be more fundamental, its verisimilitude is deceiving; it in no way qualifies a departure from the dilemma we find ourselves in. in fact, if anything, it adds another facet to it.
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    Post by promethean75 Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:22 pm

    https://www.newsweek.com/there-no-such-thing-race-283123

    This is why I'm not a racist and hate everyone equally.
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    Post by promethean75 Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:13 pm

    a recent exchange between a potential employer and myself:

    noble proletariat: Hi, I saw your ad and am interested if you haven't already filled the position. I've got about seventeen years experience in all aspects of carpentry, and have done both custom and production work. All hand tools, license, transportation. Call/text me any time: ***-***-****

    p.s. I can send pictures of my work upon request.

    ---

    capitalist parasite: Do you have a resume? Could you send pictures?

    ---

    noble proletariat: I don't have a 'formal' resume, but I can answer any questions you might have specifically.

    These jobs were done with two co-workers, except for the deck... which I did by myself.

    [ pictures ]

    ---

    capitalist parasite: Thanks. And you are looking for employment? If so, what hourly rate?

    ---

    noble proletariat: no, i'm not looking for employment. what would make you think that? i just like responding to ads for no reason.

    (no jk, i didn't say that)

    noble proletariat: Pay rate is negotiable. Depends on what I'd be doing and my relative skill level compared to those I'm working with and what they're making. My last hourly wage was 20, but I was a lead man and working with just one other guy, the company owner. I'd be willing to let you evaluate me over a few days and make an offer. I'm confident that if the jobs are well run and organized, and the materials are there, I can produce in one hour about twice as much as I'm getting paid.

    let me explain how that kind of answer is the do-it-all answer to such a question. it says many things at once; if i find out some shmuck who isn't as good as me is making more than me just because he's married to your sister or you two like the same nascar driver, either his wage comes down, mine goes up, or i'm gone before you can say marxist labor theory of value. it states that i am capable of being a lead man, but not that it's necessary. and most importantly, it puts the capitalist parasite 'in check' before the ball even starts rolling; for every 20 dollars i make in an hour by laboring, you make 20 dollars for free. therefore, before you even think about opening your mouth to say anything other than 'omg thank you so much', know that i know that you know that i know you have nothing to lose and everything to gain from my presence.

    (and that's an underestimation, too. fuck, i've built 500 dollar projects in 3.5 hours, before. one of the last things i did for that piece of shit liar scumbag i'm suing is wrap an exposed truss beam with finished poplar, by myself. know how much that fucker made off that single beam? 2,000 dollars. took me all of five hours to build it at 20 per hour. really drives the absurdity of this situation home; in five hours i made for this cockroach almost six times what he owes me and what i'm having to sue him for. drop in that guys pocket... totally free money... and still the motherfucker won't pay me. i can tell you this much. he better hope that judge rules in my favor. if he doesn't, i'm gonna play the judge... and he sure as fuck doesn't want that to happen.)
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    Post by promethean75 Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:32 pm

    No reply yet. Fuck man I just thought of something. My email 'thepromethean'. What if the dude thinks I'm a meth head? Like I'm pro meth. But then if I explain to him how I'm a disciple of prometheus, he's either gonna think I'm into some weird alien shit (the movie), or, he'll Google it and find out I defy god.

    This is not good. Definitely not good.
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    Post by promethean75 Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:44 pm

    you know what the best thing is about CNN? ana cabrera's neck. i mean she's sharp all the way around, but look at that neck. i could spend fifteen minutes just kissing and licking and sucking that woman's neck before i did anything else. it's the kind of neck you wanna nestle up against when you go to sleep. you wanna bury your face in it. there you are, your face pressed into the nook of her shoulder... the scent of her warm flesh, her soft hair falling over your face, the gentle pulse of her jugular, the rhythm of her breathing. you both lay there, skin glistening with sweat in the moonlight that casts through the sliding glass door of the suite. you never made love like that before. she lightly runs her fingers up and down your back as you prop yourself up on one elbow, getting a full view of her body. the silk sheets grasp and pull at her form, the contour of her hips, her supple breasts... firm nipples peeking out from under the edge of the silk sheet. you brush your hand lightly against her cheek and sigh. 'god you are so gorgeous, ana. if i was a ship, you'd be my anchor. get it? 'anchor'.' she rolls her eyes and laughing, pulls you to her. your lips meet and you taste the sweetness of her breath once more. 'make love to me again, [insert your name], please', she whispers, slowly sliding the silk sheet down her body. you part her legs and position yourself over her as she wriths underneath you, clutching at your waist and pulling you down. suddenly she thrusts her hips forward taking your full length... her sex gripping you tightly. she moans and begins to buck underneath you as you pin her legs back to her shoulders. 'ohhh god you're so deep, [insert your name]', she gasps. you begin to fuck her harder and faster... she clutches the sheets with her fists, her face twisting in ecstatic agony as she whimpers. 'oh-hu...oh-hu...oh-hu...ahh...mmm-hmmt..ohhh...my...god-dh...' the tension and heat building between your legs consumes you as the sound of wet smacking fills the room. stllk...stllk...stllk...stllk. suddenly she convulses and releases a series of deep guttural groans as you thrust in and out of her in full, solid motions, her inner thighs soaked, her swollen sex hot, throbbing, gorged with blood, gripping and pulling you. you can't hold it. ahhhh. oh god... i'm gonna... i'm gonna...

    wait, what the fuck is this, some kind of erotic writing penthouse forum?

    you people are a real piece of work, you know that?

    anyway yeah, so ana's neck is something serious, man. like i dont even hear what they're saying i'm so zoned in on her. all i hear is 'breaking news *ana's neck* in houston today *ana's neck* a local fund raiser *ana's neck* was interrupted *ana's neck* when protests *ana's neck* broke out *ana's neck* in, etc., etc.

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    Post by promethean75 Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:41 pm

    here are the instructions for the assembly of your new world, in which i'm confident you'll do fine in. you're looking at what will be likened to a kind of technocratic-communism, a world no longer troubled by the conflicts we experience now during the more immature stage of evolution. as a consequence of this, our arguments against and fears toward what we imagine such a new world to be like, are the results of mistaking any possible new world for having to have the same problems we currently face. we therefore naturally set up a straw man composed of the problems of our reality, and then determine the efficacy of our arguments against it, based on how well they seem to address our current problems - problems that won't exist in the world we're arguing can't exist because we think it will have to experience the problems we experience now. see how that works? it's a slight detail of fallacious reasoning usually practiced by two types; romantics who reason backwards and evaluate the quality of culture and state in comparison to what is old and historic (spengler, in one way, is a prime example), and capitalists, those who fear having to turn over their ownership of production to the workers. these types on the continuum of social and economic evolution can both be classified as an atavism of a certain outmoded weltanschauung; the first type is naive and sentimental, the second type, a cancerous relic that is being slowly excised by progress.

    marx, in momentarily coquetting with the hegelian dialectic of history, admitted that capitalism was the next logical step in the dialectic (spencer actually describes this very well too in his theory of social evolution), but that the overall dynamic in this dialectic would inevitably purge this stage and replace it with a more efficient system. this step wouldn't be voluntary in the sense of being something that would be 'chosen' by the world... rather a compulsory move that happens through necessity. it simply makes sense; you remove that which does not contribute to production and distribution. those who do contribute to these things almost instinctually know this, and it develops over time in the consciousness of the working class. contrarily, the purpose of the capitalist is to try and prevent this from happening so to stall his inevitable dissolution. but the organism, the body politic, is incredibly efficient, constantly streamlining itself and... well, to put it in the form of a metaphor... 'burning away its fat'.

    it used to be that nature could be wasteful as an expression of its abundance of energy. nietzsche was right when he said that. but the world today does not have the freedom of movement it once had. we are fast approaching ecological limits. it's time to tighten up.

    there really is no other thesis-antithesis in the philosophy of history. there is no question (or problem) of 'better or worse' culture, since this is a perfectly relative concept that has no objective criterion with which to be compared and judged. that is to say there are no 'philosophical' propositions that can be produced about a genuine problem of culture. there is no more substance to such a claim than 'this is unfamiliar to me and i don't like it'. it's perfectly emotivist, nothing more. what can be done, however, is a materialistic and therefore scientific examination of the modes and relations of production in which you can indicate what is necessary and what is not for such modes and relations to sustain themselves. you will have two opposing parties conducting this examination; the owners of production and the workers. the owner's narrative will consist of philosophical elements that can be used to defend their place of power; e.g., social darwinism (in fact, 'survival of the fittest' is a tautology and explains nothing), cosmic law (calvinism was a glaring attempt at such bullshit), elitism, aristocratic romanticism, nihilism (nothing matters, so why not exploit?), and so forth. we wouldn't include smithological free market theory because smith was no slouch. he was an honest economist who genuinely thought the free market was a sustainable system indefinitely. the guy meant well, so we grant him a pardon. but the problem with all these 'foundations' for justifying the place of the owner of production is that all of it is philosophical, and therefore, by and large, a load of bullshit.

    on the other hand, the worker's examination of the modes and relations of production and distribution show a scientific fact; that the owner simply isn't necessary in this process. its only a bonus that eliminating him might result in an increase in the quality of life. but this isn't the premise the worker begins with, see. remember, who is to say who has a 'right'? a capitalist could argue he has just as much right to own the means of production as the worker argues he has the right to eliminate him, and there would be nothing but the degree of might of either to enforce it. so marxism at its core is not a 'philosophy' or an 'ethics', it is a system of ergonomics, you might say, that, incidentally, just might improve the quality of life and/or society at large. and who wouldn't want that? well except for those who's quality of life comes at the expense of others, i mean. of course they would object, cuz it means they'd have to work.

    in a way, i'm even colder than marx (though nothing comparable to his caliber as a thinker), as i wouldn't set out to defend such a theory on moral or ethical grounds. i know such an approach can't be defended and foresee this problem, so i find another way. it sounds impossible, doesn't it; an anarcho-nihilist defending marxism. it must be the empathy i have with the working class. i've got 25+ years as a blue collar worker, and i've got my disgust with the capitalist down to a science. why the fuck is he even here? who let him in? is this a joke? you can't be serious.

    anyway, here's your new world. and guess who won't be running it.  


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    Post by promethean75 Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:42 pm

    professor satyr wrote:The idea that an elite group, with wealth and power, would abandon their fate to the hands of masses of mostly imbeciles, ignoramus' and retards is an idea only the illiterate, retarded imbecile would believe.

    that is correct. it will never be 'handed over'. it has to be taken by force, either through gradual reform or suddenly. the days of 'sudden force' are over except in those little countries where it's still possible to stage a coup. but they don't matter. they get like ten minutes on the news and in the papers, and then they're forgotten about. and the process of 'gradual reform' will be long winded and replete with a lot of foul play and deception. but you don't worry about the means, just the ends. that the social democrats aren't true marxists doesn't necessarily mean what their doing won't finally result in an international proletarian dictatorship. 'course they may not want that to happen and just pretend to so to get their nanny state in place... but revolutionizing a nanny state is much easier than revolutionizing a real free market economy. put another way, democrat capitalists are more easily overcome than republican capitalists because they already 'pave the way' by strangling much of the power of the free market.

    so we can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way. it's up to you, partner.

    *spits*

    *hawk cries out in distance*

    *grinds boot heel in dirt to gain footing*

    *moves black trench coat aside revealing gold plated six shooter*

    *shifts toothpick from left side of mouth to right side*

    *townsfolk gather on front porch of barber shop and saloon to watch*

    *tumbleweed rolls lazily across the dusty street*

    on some real shit though, there are no more 'elite'. i mean they're elite but they aren't like the aristocrats in the olden days. they don't read the classics, aren't polymaths, don't gently sway back and forth listening to brogadovitz's etudes in b minor while sitting in front of the fire place in a velvet arm chair, don't discuss goethe's theory of knowledge in the smoking room with other fellows from the polo club, and don't stand for twenty minutes in front of a single painting contemplating the unique and nuanced pointilism of the hungarian artist who did it.

    the 'elite', today, are no more distinguished from the lowly plebs than a chimpanzee is distinguished from a bonobo. the only difference is the size of the wallet, that's about it. oh and the yacht... the one he uses to host dinner parties off the coast of panama which overweight oil tycoons, CEOs, moviestars and cRap artists attend to discuss all their spoils with smug pretention.

    if you switched all these bozos with a crew of third-shift custodial janitors, you'd not know the difference.

    'aristocrat' is a formally pre-20th century phenomena, i'm afraid. these dudes were great for some other reason... it wasn't their wealth that made them great. the wealth was just an addition to their person. and what they were great for was largely due to their access to real education... not the kind of education the peasants got from uncle dolby in the ramshackle hut with the straw roof down by the oak grove once a week. how the fuck could little john ever come to understand the significance of the work of copernicus or newton if uncle dolby only knows about horses and potato crops? and he's probably not entirely right about that, either, the poor bastard.

    now, switch these guys too. put julius von garlington the second in that hut and little john in that royal library. guess what would happen. guess who would become the aristocrat.

    see, it ain't got shit to do with blood or inheritance, and everything to do with education and social mobility.

    all i want to be is dazzled by the wealthy, and i'll let them go. but they just can't do it. okay, fine, some of these guys are philanthropists and do good things for the peeps with their money. but check this out; it isn't their money to begin with (technically), so it isn't the owner of verizon who's investing in commercial space travel. it's stacy the receptionist, kevin the sales manager, jennifer the public relations officer, mark the advertisement coordinator, claire the event organizer, timothy wong the software writer, and a host of other workers who generate the profits of the company, who technically fund this new innovative technology. you could make the owner disappear, and the commercial space travel venture would still happen.

    so where are these elite? please point them out to me so i can protect their noteriety from the lowly proletariat and give proper credit where credit is due. i'm a fair guy. i want to do the right thing. i want to be able to point to a guy and say 'now that guy is the noble randian john galt and shining symbol of the free market i once read about. he is someone very important that we should aspire to become like. he's the guy who made it all happen.'

    nah, there's no more aristocrats, bro. they like to think they are, but they're just your garden variety 21rst century run-of-the-mill bourgeois. the kind of folks nietzsche and kierkegaard warned us about. shallow aesthetes with more free time than the other guy, that's all.
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    Post by promethean75 Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:26 pm

    professor satyr wrote:The ancient Greeks were divided into tribes and city-states, but when the barbarian Persians came...

    oh hell no. i know you did NOT just call the persians 'barbarians'. the persian empire was to the greek city states what The Jetsons were to the Flintstones.

    who is telling you this stuff? did spengler tell you this? you tell spengler to report to my office immediately.
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    Post by promethean75 Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:18 pm

    big rengeler wrote:The left views enemies as evil, to be wiped out.

    The right sees enemies as not evil, but just wrong and disruptive to the desirable course of human activity. People to be worked with and maybe beat up, but not eliminated by any means. Anybody that seeks to eliminate anybody IS already an enemy to the right.

    even if the use of the term 'evil' wasn't just a rhetorical device used to bolster some version or another of moralizing, a careful study of the origins of the concept would lead you directly to conservatism. that's the supreme irony that has escaped you, perhaps. being more or less dependent on one of two available rationalisms - one being the concept of 'evil' as sanctioned by a god (platonic)... the other being the concept of 'evil' as sanctioned by reason (kantian) - conservatism, which is the belief that the greatest good for the greatest number can be achieved through free market economy (it makes clumsy use of utilitarian principles to defend itself), embodies one or the other of these available rationalisms as its foundation. but in either case, it establishes itself as the normative condition under which these things can be realized. that's to say, it 'holds on' to itself, is weary and suspicious of anything defined as progressive... anything that threatens the 'old ways', what is 'tried and true', so to speak. conservatism is a ruling class politics that embraces a philosophy (or theology) with which it can defend itself from anything that threatens to usurp it, calling any opposition 'evil', either by being contrary to god's will (which is the establishment of the conservative state), or contrary to 'reason' (which dictates the conservative state is proper).

    and even political philosophers like locke, who were empiricists, still make allusions to rationalism in their theories of ethics/morals. they 'slip it in' when you aren't looking.

    historical materialism - and don't think these leftist goons you watch videos of on youtube are HMs - is an openly progressive and theoretically revolutionary science that does not impose artificial restrictions on social evolution like conservatism does. conservatives don't want anything to change, because that would risk a loss of power. they prefer to think of social evolution as fixed, as finalized, as being at a last stage. and they proselytize any philosophy they can get their hands on to defend themselves from this dreadful fact; that 'tradition' cannot last. and rather than adapt, which, in this particular case would mean to relinquish power, they try to forestall it from happening as long as they can. you can't blame em, really. a parasite needs a host or it'll perish.

    and what is one way they do this? (here's our irony again) they vilify anything that threatens it. is it not the great one world order conspiracy of the 'leftists' that is the most evil thing? or the zionist movement? or the terror of islam? anything that poses a danger to the relinquishing of power from the ruling, capitalist class is 'evil' with a capital E.

    but a proper marxist does not see things in terms of 'good' and 'evil', because HM is not founded on theology or the metaphysics of reason. i mean there are such silly things as 'christian socialism', sure, but this is the right thing for the wrong reason.

    and shirley you are aware of the countless people killed through the ages at the hands of conservative movements, yes? from the crusades to modern fascism - all are conservative ideologies. whether you are of a different 'race' or worship a different 'god', you are evil with a capital E.

    marxists are a little more lighthearted; you're not 'evil or not', but 'useless or not'. a level headed marxist wouldn't call a capitalist 'evil' and in fact understands the transition from feudalism into capitalism as necessary. it's those fake-ass democrat leftists that run that 'evil white man capitalist racist pig' propaganda to try and win the attention of voters. this is not to say they aren't white capitalist racist pigs... only that they aren't 'evil', as there is no such thing.

    this concludes my latest response to a one 'pedro I rengel'.
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    Post by promethean75 Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:18 pm

    scene: trumpf converses with his aid before the state of the union address as his hair stylist carefully works on his comb-over.

    trumpf: quick, declare a national emergency and shut the government down... there's eleven mexican gang members crossing into el paso at this very moment!

    aid: i'm sorry... 'national emergency'?

    trumpf: it's not for real, dummy. i'm just doing this because i got a little deal going with those contractors and i need to get that wall job started for em... plus i can't stand pelosi. of course there's no national emergency. even i'm smart enough to know that. in fact statistics are showing that the number of 'dangerous' illegal immigrants entering the country has steadily declined. whew, that was a long sentence. surprised i made it through that one without saying 'incredible' three times.

    aid: so what's your deal with pelosi?

    trumpf: she's an old hag and a tremendous farce like me... and it's not about doing what's right for the country. i don't give two craps about the country. and even if i did, i'd just follow the lead of my advisors who work with the lobbyists to put policies in place that favor the military-industrial complex and big businesses. i just learned that phrase, btw; military-industrial complex. [ pooches lips like a fish ]

    aid: yeah that's understandable... this country really is a joke. might as well get what you can out of it, right?

    trumpf: damn straight. but getting filthy rich from inheritance and flipping apartments gets boring, ya know? i want to be admired... i want people to see how hot my wife is. i figured if i became president, i could get the attention i wanted. plus i get to do my intense concentrated very important business man with great responsibility look in front of the cameras.

    aid: you know your old lady thinks you're a cold fish. she's only in it for the money and publicity.

    trumpf: of course i know that. i just use her to make other men jealous... i love it when other men are jealous of me. there's no genuine 'love' here... what do i know about love, i'm completely empty.... well except for my bank accounts. we're just an 'item', a 'symbol' for the media.

    aid: well in any case you better be careful about what you do. polls are showing that the only ones supporting you are the old useless fucks like you, the red neck white trash, and the filthy rich business owners. the younger educated and well mannered progressively minded generation can't stand you.

    trumpf: like i said, i don't care about any of that. this is about me. i've been rich all my life and i need this to make me feel like a man. did you see that footage of me digging with that shovel the other day? i couldn't even get the damn thing in the ground. seriously, i looked pathetic. i can't even use a fucking shovel correctly... so what the fuck am i doing running the country, you ask? like i said, i don't run the country... i just do what i'm advised to do. i'm just a front-man. what's important is that the american working class never finds out what a joke their democracy is. and until they finally figure it out and get rid of me, there's hands to shake and money to be made.

    aid: okay you're on in two minutes. hold still so the stylist can plaster your comb over with gel to keep it in place. oh and the cock-suckers' ball begins at 7:00, so we'll need to leave by 6:30.

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