The Pathos of Distance

THIS IS AN ANNOYING LOG-IN POP UP JUST FOR YOU
The Pathos of Distance

- Agile Minds in Perpetuum -


    What is 'Consciousness'?

    Share
    avatar
    Magnus Anderson

    Posts : 62
    Join date : 2018-02-25

    Re: What is 'Consciousness'?

    Post by Magnus Anderson on Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:04 pm

    Zoot wrote:if i dropped an apple in space, which direction would it go?

    But there are no trees in space. In fact, my back yard is on Earth. The statement is "The apples fall down from the tree in my back yard and not up". You can limit yourself to what happens in my back yard. My point, I have to remind you, is that such a statement imposes restrictions on what is possible.

    i have the same problem hume and popper had with such statements.

    Hume had no problem with such statements. Popper did.

    you can't prove that all swans (P) are white (Q).

    You cannot do so with absolute certainty, that's true, however . . .

    you can prove that all the swans that you have seen are white

    . . . since memory is infallible, particular statements such as "I saw a white swan at some point in the past" aren't absolutely certain either. But strangely, you have no problem with them.

    are we really still talking about this, man?

    I am afraid that we need to.

    but you aren't making any predictions about anything by saying 'some swans are white'. you're just stating a fact.

    And that's why such statements are not sufficient to me: because I want to make predictions.
    avatar
    Satyr

    Posts : 761
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: What is 'Consciousness'?

    Post by Satyr on Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:38 pm





    _________________
    Know Thyself

    Zoot Allures

    Posts : 525
    Join date : 2018-02-07
    Age : 500

    Re: What is 'Consciousness'?

    Post by Zoot Allures on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:28 am

    andy wrote:But there are no trees in space.

    not anymore.



    andy wrote:. . . since memory is infallible, particular statements such as "I saw a white swan at some point in the past" aren't absolutely certain either. But strangely, you have no problem with them.

    i hope you know that this stuff is very radical empiricism, andy. the kind of stuff that makes even berkeley look normal. the implications of this would make anything we talk about, dubious. in fact, i'm not even sure i just said that, because my memory of it is fallible.

    andy wrote:And that's why such statements are not sufficient to me: because I want to make predictions.


    and you can. alls i'm saying is that accepting the statement 'all swans are white' doesn't make any difference regarding any predictions you might make about swans or Ps or Qs or anything else.

    you simply can't predict if all swans are white. because you'd have to know all the factors and variables throughout the universe making the existence of different colored swans, possible. what is the percent chance that a purple swan doesn't exist on the other side of the universe? how would you even begin to figure that out? instead of the drake equation, it would be the andy equation:

    N = The number of purple swan civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.
    R* = The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of purple swans.
    fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.
    ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for purple swans.
    fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which purple swans actually appear.
    fi = The fraction of swan bearing planets on which  purple swans emerge.
    fc = The fraction of purple swan civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.
    L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.
    avatar
    Magnus Anderson

    Posts : 62
    Join date : 2018-02-25

    Re: What is 'Consciousness'?

    Post by Magnus Anderson on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:42 am

    Zoot wrote:i hope you know that this stuff is very radical empiricism, andy.

    I don't think it's radical. I think it's obvious.

    It is obvious that every statement is fallible. This includes particular statements that refer to something observed e.g. "It was raining yesterday". It includes particular statements that refer to something unobserved e.g. "It will rain tomorrow". And it also includes universal statements such as "It will rain every day from now on".

    Even though I think that both particular and universal statements are fallible, I have no problem with them. You, on the other hand, have no problem with particular statements but you have a problem with universal statements. This I find very strange.

    the implications of this would make anything we talk about, dubious. in fact, i'm not even sure i just said that, because my memory of it is fallible.

    I am not completely sure the Sun will rise tomorrow, and yet, I am not rejecting that belief. In other words, if a belief is not absolutely certain that does not mean I cannot act upon it. This point seems rather difficult for you to grasp.

    and you can.

    Well, yes, I can make predictions without relying on some universal statement. For example, I can say something like "The Sun will rise tomorrow" without thinking that "The Sun will rise every day from now on". Still, you have to admit, such a statement goes beyond what is apparent. It is uncertain. It refers to something that will happen in the future, and you have to agree, what's going to happen in the future is not certain. My predictions can turn out to be wrong. Yet, you have no problem with such statements. But you do, for some strange reason, have a problem with universal statements; in other words, with theories, since theories make an infinite number of predictions.

    Sponsored content

    Re: What is 'Consciousness'?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:44 am