The Pathos of Distance

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The Pathos of Distance

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    Ahem.......

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    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:50 am

    in the WTP thread Barracuda wrote:Go on then.

    that's a tall order dude. maybe because i've only ever provided critical commentary in bits and pieces in responses to various VO posts (you, UrGod, Pezer), that my critiques go unremembered. i'd have to spend some time and make a great effort to critique VO proper... but then we would only get lost in digressions and arguments about what certain words mean. i don't like doing that anymore... especially if i just get done spending a great deal of time in writing a major critique. shirley you understand.

    we'll work it all out step by step, i think. i mean shit, ain't nobody else here to post, so fuck it.

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:14 pm

    iambiguous wrote:...paging Zoot Allures...paging Zoot Allures...

    come over here dude! somebody go get him please. and tell him to bring his hanger-ons with him.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:43 am

    look at these guys:

    https://www.churchofsatan.com/frequently-asked-questions.php


    i dunno man, i can't get into it. i mean i know what they're trying to do and it's not a bad idea, it's just all wrong.



    wait a minute.

    wtf?





    Anton LaVey is Ming the Merciless?

    oh this changes everything.


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    Barracuda

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Barracuda on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:05 am

    Zoot Allures wrote:you called him 'biggy'. how strange. i had a theory once (and still might) that iambiguous is, in fact, a poster that went by 'biggy' at a yahoo philosophy group over a decade ago. i had just discovered philosophy forums and that was one of the first i ever joined. the administrator of the forum was a kantian lawyer (might of had a PhD), and most of the members were all philosophy majors or graduates. the discussions and debates at this forum were top rate; these guys didn't chat or banter around. these motherfuckers 'got it in', man. i've never seen before nor since, anything of that caliber. i was fresh out of my will durant's story of philosophy so i was really green. man all i could do was watch. if i even dared to try to argue, these dudes would pulverize me; wayyyyy over my head. extremely technical.

    but there was this one loner there named biggy, and everyone was against him. remember you have a forum full of objectivists of all flavors, and these dudes know their shit. but biggy- and here is the strange part- was right beside them the whole way... chopping them down, blow for blow. for every argument they put out, biggy would counter it with something just as technical. all the other existentialists and relativists would be like 'yeah, what biggy said'. i look back at it now and get a laugh. great memories.

    anyway, if this iambiguous is biggy, he's toned it down immensely. he isn't cutting loose at ILP like he could if he wanted. if he is biggy, i think he thinks it would be a waste of his time... so what he's done, as a real veteran of philosophy fora, is narrow down his platform to a simple formula... a formula that keeps on working and requires less effort; the dasein and conflicting good and whatever.

    another coincidence; both biggy and iambiguous are vietnam vets.

    scratch

    Lamb is just repeating the same slogan and posting titles of popular songs to get hits. He has not said a single thing in all the time Ive known him.

    This, not saying anything and being cocky about that, is indeed apparently highly entertaining for the modern poor.

    that, in turn, somewhat makes me chuckle. To each his own.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:17 pm

    damn, you put me into a difficult position there, beathoven. you can't just mosey on in and declare in one feel swoop that the philosophies of existentialism and relativism have no substance.

    you're not just arguing with biggy, but a small army of great thinkers as well. Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Stirner, Jaspers, Ponty, Sartre, Camus, Marcel, Frankl, Rorty, the list goes on, and these dudes aren't forum board philosophers. they're the real deal, man. it's not for nothing that they are world renowned.  

    biggy's a little repetitious...well, very repetitious, but that's not the point. his position is critically important in philosophy, and at ILP there are very few who so eloquently understand and represent that existential position.

    i like em, even though he frustrates me in the same way woody allen would frustrate me if i was getting ready to rob a bank, as he sits beside me in the car bugging me to reconsider because i couldn't be sure what i was doing was right.

    who the fuck cares if it's right or wrong. we're gettin' the money, woody, and we're headin' for the boarder. now shut the fuck up and the mask on. you're driving me nuts man.
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    Barracuda

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Barracuda on Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:27 pm

    "you can't just mosey on in and declare in one feel swoop that the philosophies of existentialism and relativism have no substance. "

    How did this sentence occur to you? What does it have to do with me?
    See if you can show me, quoting my words, that this has anything to do with me.

    Lamb seems to make sense to a lot of people to whom I don't make sense. And these are strictly people who, like him, never quote a philosopher they speak of, never define their terms, and always ignore what is being said to them to raffle off some prayer.

    I once tried to talk to Lamb about Dasein, turns out he didn't even know it is a German word, he didn't know that Nietzsche introduced it into philosophy, and he had never read Heideggers writing on it - really, I rarely encountered such bloated and proud ignorance.

    The philosophers you mention, show me how dismissing Lambs prayer prevents you from understanding any of them. And while youre at it, show me how my notion of self-valuing is not a solid development of Nietzsches and Heideggers notions of Dasein. Show me that these people in my threads aren't trolls.



    Go on then.


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    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:41 pm

    i just saw a commerical on TV that really disturbed me. it was one of those 'for just seventeen cents a day you can help...etc., etc.'

    this particular commercial showed footage from the middle east... a little girl, maybe four or five, was so shaken by a bomb that was dropped by her that she couldn't even talk. the video showed a group of people huddling around her, trying to comfort her. she was shaking like a leaf, her face distorted with fear and in tears. man i'm telling you this REALLY messed me up. i've seen commercials like these before and can usually walk away unscathed. but this one got me. i'm still hot behind the eyes right now.

    if there were a god responsible for this world, i would eternally defy him. the sheer incompetence of such a god is staggering. to have the power to create anything and instead choose to create a world like this. no sir. that's not gonna fly.

    this god has just been fired, by me.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:03 pm

    i have been on philosophy fora for a loooong time, folks, and in all my years i have never known anyone like ecmandu. this guy is a complete basket case. this dude is so screwed up he oughta donate himself to a mental institution for study. he's not a bad guy or a dangerous guy or anything like that, don't get me wrong. but what makes him so remarkable is that his entire philosophy/world view is less of a rational system of thought and more of a kind of side effect of his complex; problems socializing, problems with females, problems with males. it is one of the most perfect examples of neurosis that i have ever seen. and what makes it such a wonderful neurosis is a) he doesn't realize he has it, and b) he is an intelligent guy that demonstrates how deeply rooted psychological problems can be sublimated into philosophical thoughts about the world.

    it goes to show how connected our emotions are to our intellects, and how despite our attempts to be rational, disinterested thinkers, our ideas might very well directly and symptomatically reflect our feelings.... without us even knowing it.

    whenever i read one of ecmandu's post, i feel like i'm flying right over a cuckoo's nest.

    and his narcissism is fabulous. he sub-sub-consciously inflates his sense of importance so his sub-conscious can't inform his conscious that his sub-sub-conscious has created this delusion. he is truly remarkable.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:21 am

    UrGod wrote:I will think on your central question here and get back to you when that thinking is more progressed.

    lol! as if him thinking for one hour on it would produce a conclusion any less obscure than what he would produce had he only thought on it for five minutes.

    this guy cracks me up.

    'hmm... i shall ponder this query, and when i have thought long, i shall offer forth my wisdom.'

    okay big guy. you get back to us on that.

    UrGod wrote:Can’t wait until reality is revaluated along these lines of VO. Lots of wonderful work ahead for us to do.

    i get the feeling he's in his mid twenties, what with all the eminem videos he posts. he's at the age where his dreams of being a philosophical great have not yet been dashed by the hard truth that it's all been done already, and better than he could ever manage to do it, himself. or, that it simply can't be done because its premises are completely implausible if not so confused as to be incapable of being either true or false, in the first place.

    but you don't disturb this fantasy, because in one sense it demonstrates an enthusiasm for philosophy that is very rare... and that's what we want; more artists. just let them play, and don't ruin it for them. don't ever tell them 'your confused', or 'this is nonsense', or 'this is nothing new,' because that would discourage the fellow.

    there is a reason why pragmatism was the last major movement in analytical philosophy. it suddenly dawned on history that without a 'cash value', the great philosophical systems of the world mean next to nothing... or rather, in this case, one wouldn't know the difference between a VOist and an ordinary dude. it is the question that is forever being asked by iambiguous; how do I use VO in everyday life? what does a VOist do in situation x, y, and z that somebody else wouldn't do?

    everything 'is value' has explained nothing. everything is 'a valuing' has explained nothing. everybody 'values' has explained nothing. and when the explaining begins, nothing substantial is said that would distinguish the system from any other system that has already addressed the issues which pertain to the choices people are forced to make in any given, real existential circumstances.

    'no, i don't support abortion because i'm a VOist' or 'i do support abortion because i'm a VOist' indicates nothing about why being a VOist has any relevance to making such a decision. one might as well have said the same thing, only because one's a kantian, or a sartrean, or a marxist, or a conservative, whatever.

    new philosophical trends emerge everyday that claim to provide novel ways to address old problems. but they don't, because the problems have been turned upside down and inside out, with every possible approach to the matter being completely exhausted already.

    still i don't have the heart to be so apprehensive toward those who are naive and grandiose enough to actually believe they are pioneers of something new and extraordinary.

    why? because their delusions are harmless. poets and artists are always better than the ordinary and mediocre, despite whether or not they can really change anything.

    i dunno. i suppose my essential objection is to the belief that some new philosophy will change the world at large. i don't think a VOist, for example, should aspire to do something on a scale that large. it's a futile endeavor.

    on the other hand, there is nothing wrong with establishing a cult(ure) composed of those who subscribe to a set of philosophical beliefs. epicurus and his gang did it when they left the cities and became proto-hippies. nothing wrong with that.

    my terms and conditions: i will only subscribe to VO if i can get a t-shirt.

    take it or leave it.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:54 am

    ah jeez. i'm sorry man. i'm in a bad mood because of this probation shit and all the inconveniences it's causing me. the shit's got me outta my square, man.

    i'm angry, and i wanted to attack something. i'm sorry.

    SIKE!!!!

    no seriously, i'm sorry.


    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:22 pm

    biggy wrote:In other words, helpful in yanking me out of the fucking hole that I've dug myself into.

    i have a theory about this, biggy. sit down.

    i'm gonna get straight to the point. i think you are suffering from PTSD; post traumatic subjectivist disorder. i think your experience at The Philosophy Cafe was like vietnam all over again, dude... your arch nemesis being Friedrich, with Hawk and J.H. Bowden bringing up the rear. you were literally surrounded by kantian objectivists, and they're like the green berets of continental philosophy. how could such a traumatizing experience not effect you, man? seriously.

    you remember those essays Friedrich used to post. they were like something straight outta stanford for christ's sake! it took everything you had to stay alive... and i watched you fight for your life, biggy... i watched you become an animal. you had to, man. and that's what has shaken you. you're still recovering from that terrible war; the battle with the kantian cong... friedrich chi minh at the front.

    and i take some of the blame for this, bro. you called in air support and i failed you. i failed you because i was fresh out of bootcamp... private detrop. fuck man i could barely even fire my own rifle straight. what was i supposed to do?

    i'm gonna tell you why you transformed from the original relativist you once were to the cynic you are now. everytime you tried to assert yourself and express a relative moral judgement, Friedrich chi minh shot at you with a fully automatic self-referential contradiction ak-47... and you had to duck and cover. so you gave up. you stopped even having an opinion and simply took the position that any position was absurd.

    you didn't used to be like this, man. Friedrich tricked you and you didn't know how to get around it. fuck man, if only i knew what i know now... i woulda come to your side and we woulda wasted that chump... him and his crew.

    we want the old biggy back. we want the biggy that loved life, morality be damned!

    now i want you to go to a forum somewhere, take a position, and defend it. i don't give a damn what it is. just believe in it and fight for it.

    you still got your old keyboard? good. take it down from the mantle, oil it up, and lock and load.... because biggy's back.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:14 pm

    Barracuda... over here. from the WTP thread... the stuff about saturn.

    so what's the deal then? am i gonna have a good year or what? maybe a little romance, or a great job opportunity or some really good luck? gimme something to work with man. you didn't explain anything.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:57 pm

    i wake up this morning and find that saully has flooded the forum with essays. saully isn't the kind of guy you can argue with, because if you produced an argument, he'd respond with another deluge of essays. you might as well not even start a fight with him; you'll either lose, or have to commit at least two hours writing something substantial up as an argument. i just let him go with it. i mean fuck, he mentions at least ten philosophers/thinkers in ever essay... so where would one even begin connecting the dots. i have to actually read something to deal with this guy. with others, i can just pull from my brain what is already there, and it's usually good enough to get the job done.

    anyway, saully has gone up like three levels since i was in the joint this time. +5 damage on a six sided die, and he's got regenerative mana now. he's used to not have that ability.

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:14 am

    what a delightful surprise! i received a PM from socrates (Turd Ferguson) last night, but was instructed not to reply, as he would not log in again to read it.

    you should be able to guess what it was about; his ongoing war with saully and jakob, his disapproval of my ways and theirs, his nietzsche bashing, some obscure references to various others philosophers, and more extensive patronizing in general.

    somehow i have gotten myself into the middle of this mess and while i don't mind all the exciting action, i'm not inclined to take either side... because i don't agree with turd, jakob or saully, wholeheartedly.  

    in fact, i'm confident that if i wanted, i could act as a mediator between the three of them and help them reach some kind of common ground. it would be a lot of work, and normally i would charge a flat fee for such a thing, but because i like these fellows, i'd agree to do it pro bono. think it over, boys. this offer won't last forever.

    so let me ask publicly since Turd isn't going to log in to read my reply: why do you  wanna be startin' somethin', Turd?

    Ma ma se, ma ma sa, ma ma ku sa
    Ma ma se, ma ma sa, ma ma ku sa

    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:45 am

    Turd's final words to me: "Drugs aren't getting you anywhere."

    i beg to differ. you try singing along to a gentle giant song while sober, or keeping time with herbie hancock's actual proof.


    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:02 pm

    the guy i'm working for, paul, has an autistic son. a 16 year old with the mind of a 5 year old, he tells me. he's (paul) very 'spiritual', believes in evil, evil spirits, and basically ascribes to christianity. he told me some pretty weird shit the other day. says he can send his son into a fit of rage by simply thinking of provoking him. says his son sometimes knows in advance what he's about to do. also says he has a 'light healer' or some professional he pays to come see him and his son.

    he believes that his son is super-sensitive to evil spirits, and that he is very vulnerable to them. he's telling me that he has over-developed sensory abilities to compensate for his autism.

    so i nod my way through this stuff as he talks to me, unable and without the heart to tell him he's misunderstanding what's happening. then, at the same time, i think to myself how this stuff might be possible and what it would mean. unfortunately, presenting a metaphysical theory to him for such explanation would only confuse him more. he could only understand it in the way that he does- a very crude, superstitous, christian way.

    what he told me was very interesting and there is something to it, provided he's telling me the truth. part of me believes he's lying... or exaggerating what is happening.

    don't they all?

    but man... what if he's telling the truth? psychic connection with an autistic kid that can predict the future? wtf.
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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Satyr on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:45 pm

    There is some compensation for the reduction of other faculties, as there is a compensation when not all the senses are working to their highest potential.

    There is also projection of belief on the part of the father, who interprets what he sees in accordance to what he already believes is true.
    This is an instance of backward, Top<>Down thinking
    you begin with an idea(l), a conviction and you then use empiricism to justify it....sometimes ignoring all the data, sometimes redefining it, sometimes inventing new data...

    If someone is convinced there are spirits and ghost it does not matter what is real, they will live in a world populated by them. Every event, every shadow, every sound will validate this belief.

    The test is Bottom<>Up...you accumulate data, a precedent, you establish patterns and then you test them by predicting.
    Predictability proves if your perception and understanding is probable. the more predictions you can make, and not be surprised by the outcome, the more the probability rises.
    Sometimes you can predict but you've overestimated or underestimated the outcome. That's when fine tuning starts.
    The exception does not disprove the rule, but proves it....repeated exceptions and you have to begin doubting the rule.

    I've come across all sort of wacky claims...as a kid Ouija boards were in fashion.
    I remember one time, when I was 10 or so, there was a myth about some haunted house...everyone avoided the place after dark
    I was curious so I went there. All I saw was a curtain fluttering in the night breeze.
    another time i went to a cemetery and entered a crematorium....took out one of the skulls.
    Never saw anything supernatural.
    I used to live next to a graveyard as a teenager.
    Not one thing.

    Most of this stuff is explainable.
    Occam's Razor.


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    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:06 pm

    oh this is great. so i get my check last friday but can't make the bank in time to cash it. i go to cash it this morning, and there's no money available. teller tells me i need to have my boss call the bank. so i tell the boss, and he says i'll be able to cash it tomorrow.

    here we go again. this kind of shit is a serious red flag; is this going to start happening every week? if it does, i know why.

    because he, and his crew, are incredibly slow, so his payroll is exceeding the amount he's getting in his draws from the builder. this kind of shit happens all the time in the construction industry. one of the worst aspects of the free market. it is overflowing with flakes...

    (that's bozzio, the drummer, doing bob dylan)
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    Satyr

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Satyr on Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:13 pm

    You found a job?


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    Zoot Allures

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:01 pm

    i know, right? i don't think he knows i'm a sex offender, felon, though. my plan is to get in good with him, and then come spring, when everyone's wearing shorts but me, i'll be able to explain why i wear pants; the gps ankle bracelet, and how embarrassing it is. so if he doesn't already know by then, that's the time when i'll explain everything to him... and hope he doesn't let me go.

    in the past, shortly after employers find out... i'm mysteriously laid-off; 'yeah, i'm running out of work, man... gotta let you go, etc.' sure you are.

    this gig is really good and i hope to keep it. making more than i ever have before, working by the hour. doesn't compare to what i've made subcontracting, but still it's good.

    i'd be subcontracting if all my fucking tools weren't lost to the storage place i had them at, when i was in jail back in 2010. if my charges were misdemeanors (which they actually were), i'd have gotten out in five months or less, and been able to get my stuff from the storage place. instead, the prosecutor lied and bumped them up to felonious sex offenses, and i got several years, losing almost everything; truck, tools, instruments, books, furniture, CDs (hundreds), clothes, fishing gear, computers, ... every fucking thing i owned.


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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:48 pm

    http://www.rationalskepticism.org/philosophy/regarding-folk-psychology-t25995-40.html

    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=192572

    it appears that i have a doppelganger.

    how should i feel about this:

    a) flattered

    b) insulted

    c) creeped out

    d) indifferent

    e) angry

    f) jealous

    g) festive

    h) dissolute

    i) lackadaisical
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    Satyr

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Satyr on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:35 pm

    Curious.

    That ain't you? scratch
    Riding your coattails?
    For what purpose?



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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Zoot Allures on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:41 pm

    that's dkane. from ILP back around 2005 or around there. he was homeless and into heidegger and existentialism... wrote a formal essay and posted it at ILP. i was a sartre-head and jumped right in the thread hollerin' 'no man, sartre is way better than heidegger, yada, yada.'

    no way dude. that's ain't me. i swear to cronus.
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    Barracuda

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Barracuda on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:41 am

    Zoot Allures wrote:
    Barracuda elsewhere wrote:I feel weird here but its a fine forum.
    You seem to be as always. Almost want to say hope prison was fun.

    So how are you?

    the forum will get there if saully and i have to fill the goddamn thing up ourselves. i'd like to send some ambassadors to philosophyforums.com to advertise. that's where the big fish are. wait, do we even have any ambassadors. saully, where's our ambassadors? what? we don't have any? well you know what that means. suit up, saully.

    prison is never fun unless your an institutionalized inmate. i'm not an inmate, i'm a convict. i get in and i get out, as fast as i can.

    they say the greatest feeling in the world is getting out of prison. to get that feeling, you have to go to prison first. so that's what i did. i went to prison so i could get out of prison and get that greatest feeling. the only feeling i've ever had that is comparable is freefall while skydiving. getting out of prison is like a sustained freefall minus the sound of the wind in your hears at 120 mph.

    'how i am' is relatively okay and somewhat stablized for the moment. i had nowhere to go but a homeless shelter or the old lady's house. i picked the old lady's house. but i gotta tell ya, it takes everything i got to not go on the run again. i got four years max probation, two years min, and all kinds of fees and costs and expenses and court fines and shit that i'm going to try not to pay. i also got that fucking gps ankle bracelet on again; if i'm in NC i have to wear it FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. i gotta get out of this state man, come hell or high water.

    Just curious, how does that work, you can take it off if you leave NC?


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    Barracuda

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    Re: Ahem.......

    Post by Barracuda on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:47 am

    Zoot Allures wrote:
    Barracuda elsewhere wrote:Id like to see you do it, come up with rhyming, tight rhythmic narrative on the fly.

    i can't do it. i'd only embarrass myself. i can't improv rhymes worth a shit, man... i have to write em. you'd destroy me in a freestyle, i'm sure.

    these rappers who freestyle so well have not spontaneously developed this talent. they are constantly rapping in their heads, so they have a kind of reservoir of words at their disposal that they utilize during improv. it's a talent, sure, but not a talent to be placed beside a musician's talent. playing an instrument is a whole nuther' animal, man.

    'tis one of my problems with the industry. mainstream commercialized music is being jammed full of hip-hop, discouraging any real musicians out there to express any creativity. there is no longer an audience for real music. consumers don't want musicians like they did in the nineties... the decade in which music made its last stand. yeah, once in a while a good band cuts a deal and puts an album out... but then they disappear. now you got these gay ass bands like cold play and maroon five... and this bruno mars clown. 'i'm a dangerous man with some money in my pocket'. seriously dude, go take a short walk on a long pier. you wanna know what it means to be a real musician, bruno? i got one word for you; mahavishnu. now sit the fuck down already.

    I agree about the 90s being the last stand of music. Hiphop was still music then too.
    If to any period my music relates to the 80s. At least thats how I feel about it.


    _________________
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      Current date/time is Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:55 pm